Just 18 months ago we upgraded our Shop factory ver 6pro to Ver 7 at a very costly price indeed.
However just 18 months later we are told that Ver 8 is out, and we should maybe think of buying that because they may soon turn Ver 5 & 6 and soon 7 versions off, which will put a lot of firms out of business who rely on it.

I will certainly not be upgrading to 8 at a cost of around £600 because as in all versions there is very little difference in the versions 7 & 8 to worry us, but cleaver shopfactory do have some nasty ways to force you to scrap your old version, it's called closeing your shopping basket, ha that's got you, I was forced to scrap my ver 6 14 months after buying it because they ended my licence I bought with Ver 6 just because I put my new ver 7 on the same PC.
Sorry Shopfactory makers, but if you treat your users like this, we will all move on to new companies who treat us better than you do.
David

__________________
www.healthyshop.org.uk

www.Alternative4u.co.uk

Dear David,

You are making false and libel statements against which we will defend ourselves vigorously and reserve our right to pursue you for any direct and indirect damages caused by your reckless and false statements.

Here are the facts :

1.) ShopFactory has been providing e-commerce solutions for almost 14 years. ShopFactory is continuously developed and is releasing a new version about every two years. A two year cycle for a new version is quite common in the software industry.

2.) It is a slanderous lie that ShopFactory will put any firms out of business by turning off any of the online shops created with any of its “older” versions of ShopFactory. This has never been done in ShopFactopry's 14 year history and never will....

3.) ShopFactory does promote its latest product releases and encourages its customers to upgrade to take advantage of the latest features and improvements and to ensure their online business is fully compatible with the continuous technological and security changes on the internet . ShopFactory has never forced the users of its older versions to upgrade and will never do so.

4.) The upgrade from your current ShopFactory V7 to V8 does not cost £600 as claimed by you . As it can be seen on our website the upgrade actually costs £374.25 if you upgrade to ShopFactory V8 and even less for the ShopFactory V8 Total care package.

5.) When a user upgrades their old version to a newer version such as you did some time ago from V6 to V7 than the “old” version is deactivated as you “upgraded” the old version. This is why you paid the discounted upgrade price and not the full price of the new version. In order to use both ShopFactory V6 and ShopFactory V7 you need to purchase both as full licenses. We did not force you to scrap your Version 6. You are welcome to continue using your Version 6 . Please simply contact our sales department to make the necessary arrangements.


Michael Veith
CEO
3d3.com Pty. Ltd. – The Makers of ShopFactory

Dear Michael,
Many thanks for your reply re Ver 8 update, and I do really thank you for taking the time to reply on this forum.
However you have cleared a lot of things up that I and others do need to know, as I honestly have spoken to shop factory users (off forums) but on phones about peoples concerns as well as my own.
What you said about 6 & 7 & 8 versions is good, but why on a forum? why over the last week or 2 have you NOT replied to my e mails to HQ? things you state on this forum are things I ask, and others too have wrote and like myself got no reply to e-mails.
If you look at the date of this posting I made on this forum it is some days after my e mail, so I took the step to ask people what to do on here, which at last you did see, and reply too.
I still think upgrades are too costly, even the amount you say Ver 8 is to your loyal user like me is a lot of money at these times, it is said that Ver 8 is better for search engines to find, why then were people who paid for Ver 7 last year not got that bit in your updates of Ver 7 if it is known our shops cannot be found too well.

Speaking for myself I am very happy with your software ver 7, feel it is a smashing bit of software, I do NOT want to use my old ver 6 okay? ver 7 is easy to use, it works very well on my Vista PC, I am very happy, and I am not able to see how anyone could not like it, it's the best way I know for anyone to build a shop.
Thank you for taking time to reply to my first post about this on this nice forum, but it would have been nicer to have got a private reply to e-mails.
from
David

__________________
www.healthyshop.org.uk

www.Alternative4u.co.uk

Dear David,

I am glad I was able to clear a lot of things up.

Yesterday our sales department did bring an email from you to my attention in which you raised your concerns about the pricing level and our sales department should be getting back to you shortly in response to this email if not already done so in the meantime.
In any case I think the confusion about the pricing has been cleared up in my earlier posting and if you compare our pricing and offering with other similar solutions than you will have to agree that our pricing level is quite reasonable.

However, I am afraid that I am not aware of any other emails from you. Can I please ask you to send me a private message advising me which other emails have not been responded so I can follow this up as required or alternatively please send an email to our sales department at sales@shopfactory.com for my attention.

Regards,

Michael

Michael Veith said...................

Here are the facts :

1.) ShopFactory has been providing e-commerce solutions for almost 14 years. ShopFactory is continuously developed and is releasing a new version about every two years. A two year cycle for a new version is quite common in the software industry.

2.) It is a slanderous lie that ShopFactory will put any firms out of business by turning off any of the online shops created with any of its “older” versions of ShopFactory. This has never been done in ShopFactopry's 14 year history and never will....

3.) ShopFactory does promote its latest product releases and encourages its customers to upgrade to take advantage of the latest features and improvements and to ensure their online business is fully compatible with the continuous technological and security changes on the internet . ShopFactory has never forced the users of its older versions to upgrade and will never do so.

4.) The upgrade from your current ShopFactory V7 to V8 does not cost £600 as claimed by you . As it can be seen on our website the upgrade actually costs £374.25 if you upgrade to ShopFactory V8 and even less for the ShopFactory V8 Total care package.

5.) When a user upgrades their old version to a newer version such as you did some time ago from V6 to V7 than the “old” version is deactivated as you “upgraded” the old version. This is why you paid the discounted upgrade price and not the full price of the new version. In order to use both ShopFactory V6 and ShopFactory V7 you need to purchase both as full licenses. We did not force you to scrap your Version 6. You are welcome to continue using your Version 6 . Please simply contact our sales department to make the necessary arrangements.


Michael Veith
CEO
3d3.com Pty. Ltd. – The Makers of ShopFactory
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
However as a shopfactory user I have some serious concerns.

Para 2. Whilst you don't "turn off" “older” versions, it seems you may not be interested in providing updates to help your users cope with the latest browser releases. My shopfactory version 6 was purchased new in 2006, but I now fear that customers using these later browsers may not be able purchase from these older shopfactory shops .
Surely it can't be so difficult for a software house to supply some code to resolve this browser problemrather than force your users to spend hundreds of pounds(double that for dollars!) on an upgrade.

I hope I'm wrong.................

Bumperman

Hi Bumperman,

Well you are wrong.......

We do provide updates for a reasonable period to help users cope with the continuous changes on the internet.

I can assure you that if we did not provide updates and help to our users there would not be well over 200,000 online shops created with ShopFactory.
However, it is also clear that we cannot provide free updates forever for each version of ShopFactory that we have developed over the last 14 years.
.
It has been our company policy from the beginning that there has to be a reasonable time of free updates to assist the merchant and/or developer to deal with the continuous changes on the internet.

There also has been a fair and reasonable time for the merchant to consider purchasing the latest ShopFactory release to upgrade their shop, not only to benefit from new features and enhancements but to future proof their online business.

We are currently in the process of releasing our latest ShopFactory V8 and your shop created with V6 is still fully operational. There is an issue with the latest IE8 browser which slows down the buying process for the shopper. There is a patch available to fix the speed issue with IE8. Please contact our support department for further assistance. For various reasons this patch could not be made easily available in form of an actual update.

We are committed to continuously developing leading edge and state of the art ecommerce solutions. We have released a number of “world first” over the years and have a number of patents. We are a profitable and growing business with responsibilities to our customers, employees, partners and shareholders and are here for the long term.

Regards,

Michael

Hi Michael

Thanks for prompt reply.

Your own website says:


With the release of Internet Explorer 8 many websites on the Internet no longer work properly. ShopFactory 4, 5 and 6 websites are affected by this. Customers with Internet Explorer 8 can no longer make purchases in old ShopFactory Websites created before Version 7.
ShopFactory 8 is backwards compatible and allows you to quickly upgrade your existing Internet store. Internet Explorer 8 is spreading fast. Don’t risk losing orders to customers who have already upgraded!


Are you sure I am wrong??



I'm having difficulty in contacting support, logging onto your support page only offers user forum contact, no support phone number/email is listed-can you help?


Thanks


Bumperman

Hello Bannerman;

I'm the sales & Marketing Manager at ShopFactory and I work directly with our CEO, Michael (above).

In regards to contacting support, when you login to support - you can access your support tickets directly. The link is on the bottom right of the page after you login. Our support staff is on 24 hours a day and you should receive a response from them fairly quickly. If you are having issues with this - please email sales@shopfactory.com and ask for my assistance directly - include your phone number so I can help address the login issue if you are having one.

If you have sales questions, I can also help through that contact as well. This forum is obviously not the venue to address issues where we can better provide assistance through other methods. I'm sure the forum owners will point this issue out as well.

-------------------

Hello Alternative4u;

With-out prejudice.

On June 29th. 2009, the day prior to your posting this forum comment, we spoke on the phone. I clarified the correct pricing with you, as Michael has done above as well. At that time I had also offered you a discount, which we calculated on the phone directly one-on-one. I am surprised at your response and that you have posted an inflated price upgrade cost contrary to our discussion that day.

In regards to the emails, I have also checked our system and I personally have been responding to each and every email we received from you. If we have missed an issue or email response - please send it to my attention at sales@shopfactory.com and I will address the issues again with you if you have missed one of my responses.

Also, in regards to your comment above: "...do have some nasty ways to force you to scrap your old version, it's called closeing your shopping basket" - I'm sure you are aware that like most software companies - when you upgrade your prior version is superseded by the new version. We have in many cases had users who needed access to their old version and we have asked them to contact our registrations team who can provide assistance. This process is put in place for various reasons.

If you have any further comments or issues - you can contact me as you already have.

Kind regards;
Christian Anthony
ShopFactory Sales & Marketing Manager.

MTV said.......
There is a patch available to fix the speed issue with IE8. Please contact our support department for further assistance. For various reasons this patch could not be made easily available in form of an actual update.


Christian Anthony(StanRichi)
ShopFactory Sales & Marketing Manager said........

I'm the sales & Marketing Manager at ShopFactory and I work directly with our CEO, Michael (above).

In regards to contacting support, when you login to support - you can access your support tickets directly. The link is on the bottom right of the page after you login. Our support staff is on 24 hours a day and you should receive a response from them fairly quickly. If you are having issues with this - please email sales@shopfactory.com and ask for my assistance directly - include your phone number so I can help address the login issue if you are having one.

If you have sales questions, I can also help through that contact as well. This forum is obviously not the venue to address issues where we can better provide assistance through other methods. I'm sure the forum owners will point this issue out as well.

.................................................. ................

Well I logged onto the support page which gave me 2 options, buy a support ticket or go to the user forum, neither of which seemed appropriate so I emailed as per your advice above.I received a email fromChristian Anthony-but it was only a sales letter for the new version 8!

Please can you give me a link so I can download this patch?

Thanks

Bumperman

I have got another concern about Shopfactory policy after talking to others today.
I like a few others bought Shopfactory with a licence to use it till we do not need it anymore.
Now onlylin 2007 I had Shopfactory v 6 on my PC, my PC went wrong, and when I installed shop on my new PC it told me I had used my bought version of shop already, so I would NOT be allowed to install in ever again unless I updated to ver 7 which I had to do.
I wonder if this sort of selling is legal, as under the Trade UK act, if you buy ANYTHING within the UK or EU that you are prevented from having use of it, your able to have complete refund.
Can you please tell me, and 1000s of others if you have stopped this thing of preventing us from up-dating PCs.
I hope you have, because PCs and Hard-Drives do fail, and it's not funny if your told your software cannot be used on a new PC.
David

__________________
www.healthyshop.org.uk

www.Alternative4u.co.uk

Hi Bumperman

The statement on our website is correct and what I stated is correct.

There are no more updates for ShopFactory 4,5 & 6 as these are old products and are no longer developed . We obviously cannot continue forever developing and maintaining all the versions of ShopFactory we have created since we started 14 years ago. Online shops created with the older versions have issues with the release of the latest IE8 browser. These issues and timing are outside our control……

We are now up ShopFactory V8 and we do recommend that customers with these older versions ( Version 6 and older ) consider upgrading to ensure that their online shops are future proof.

However, we allow for merchants and/or developers to plan their online shop upgrade and to ensure that there is a fair and reasonable period for the transition.
We provide this by supporting our customers and offering solutions for the transition and have made available patches and alternatives for the merchants and/or developers of the online shops created with ShopFactory so this can happen in a fair and reasonable manner.

We have a online support system at http://support.shopfactory.com where the users can lodge a support ticket. We find that the online support system is the most efficient way of providing an effective and professional support service. Once beyond the initial free support period a small fee is charged for the lodging and handling of the support ticket by our support team which is working a number of shifts in a number of locations.

Please contact our support department and they will make the patch available to you and assist you with the implementation. The patch will resolve the speed issues caused by the latest IE8.

However, we still recommend you upgrade in the near future as we do not know what issues may arise with the release of the next update or upgrade of the various browsers available on the market.


Regards,

Michael

Hi David,

The ShopFactory license you have bought can be used for as long as you wish. There is no limit on the duration you are allowed to use it.
The ShopFactory license is s single user license (all SF Version until V7, also applicable for V8 fixed price option) . This means that it can only be installed on a single PC at any given time or be used only by a single person at any given time.

We fully understand and appreciate that PCs and Hard-Drives fail and that the users need to re-install their ShopFactory license from time to time and this is possible and there is no limitation on this for a registered and legitimate ShopFactory user.

The problem encountered by you is simply part of our anti-piracy protection which limits the number of times the ShopFactory license can be installed before help from our support or registrations team is required. Once the limit is reached all you have to do is to contact our registrations team at registrations@3d3.com and they will increase the limit to allow you to re-install your ShopFactory license after they have established that you are the rightful owner of the license.

Best Regards,


Michael

Hello Michael,
That is good news, that is what was very much in the back of my mind before I spend money on updates, as I like to be able to use Shop on any new hardware upgrades I may do in future years.
I have just this year updated my PC and when I installed Shopfactory it works a treat on Vista Windows now, so even my 7 Pro version update you sent me works better than it use to on the early ver 7.
Will ver 7 see any more updates Michael, I think I am on 7.95 build 9065 now when last updated on my new PC.
Anyway as I have said before, will say it again, I think building shops is easy with the software, and I cannot fault it in anyway.
Thanks again.
David

__________________
www.healthyshop.org.uk

www.Alternative4u.co.uk

Hallo Michael

Can you also make clear why there is a 3D3 form to transfer your Shopfactory to another user ( in case of selling the program ) and what you as buyer of an unused version of Shopfactory can do if the person who sells promises to transfer to my email and does not do that ?

Hi Meindert.B

Please note that like many software packages on the market ShopFactory license is a single user license and is not transferable as outlined in ShopFactory's terms and conditions.

The 3D3 form you are refering to is for updating the licensed users details in our registration database so the licensed user can continue getting access to the free updates, support and other services.
The 3D3 form is not for transferring ownership to another user .
A used and registered ShopFactory license cannot be resold and only authorised resellers resell new ShopFactory licenses.

I suggest you contact the ShopFactory team at orders@3d3.com with all the details you have available including the details of the person reselling the ShopFactory license to you and I am sure the ShopFactory team will be able to assist you further.

Regards,

Michael

So you are effectively renting your software out to users rather than selling it to them, and then putting them in a position where they have to pay for the next upgrade because previous versions are no longer supported, or stop working altogether!?

If a ShopFactory software user wants to sell their retail business at a later date, are you saying that the purchaser of their business would also have to buy their own ShopFactory software licence??

Your business model seems a little confused, or is this 'trap-all' approach typical of US Ecommerce service providers?

If any UK based ShopFactory users are confused by their muddled business model, look elsewhere, there are many dozens of viable options that cater for all sizes of retail ventures.

If you are genuinely looking for a piece of Ecommerce software THAT YOU OWN after paying for it then try Actinic, the UK's most popular off the shelf commercial Ecommerce package. Or if you are happy to rent hosted software then try a UK platform that offers this service that doesn't hide behind a 'licence' fee

__________________
Regards,
Dave

Internet Retailer eCommerce shops . Geran SEO search engine optimisation

The IP ( Intellectual Property ) rights of any software belong to the developers of the software and always remain the property of the developer unless they sell or transfer the IP rights .

All authorised software vendors ( including developers / IP owners ) can only sell a user license to the end user as outlined in the respective software’s End User License conditions as they are not selling the IP rights...

The biggest challenge to any software developer is software piracy and protecting their IP which they manage in various ways including their respective End User License Conditions unless they give away the software for free and make a living by other means……

Software, like anything else cannot last forever and is particularly challenging with the continuous and rapid evolution of hardware and software technology. ShopFactory was the first DIY out of the box ecommerce solution when it started back in 1995 with well over 200,000 online shops created and supported by the multi-award winning and proven ecommerce solution and team of people behind it .

So, just to clarify but your statement is simply incorrect when you say that the software is effectively rented. ShopFactory User Licenses are sold for a one off fee allowing the user to use the software for as long as they want like all other software sold on a one off fee basis.

However, with the release of the latest version of ShopFactory 8 the users have the option of purchasing a user license outright with a single payment or to rent it . The rent option includes a number of additional services and benefits including all upgrades for as long as the user is paying their monthly rent. For more information please check out the ShopFactory website.

In regards to your incorrect statements about upgrading ShopFactory I think the fact that there are still ShopFactory shops older than 10 years online selling their goods and services is remarkable and clearly shows ShopFactory’s commitment to develop effective & professional ecommerce solutions and continuously support the ShopFactory users around the world.
The hardware and software evolutions outside ShopFactory's control limit certain functions & features on some of the older versions but also open new opportunities which are only available when the ShopFactory is upgraded to the latest version.
It is economical reality that the continuous development and support needs to be financed in some way.

ShopFactory's business model is very clear and straight forward. You buy a license to use the software and this license is not transferable. If somebody else wants to use ShopFactory he or she needs to buy a license. The license they buy can be rented on a monthly basis or bought outright with a single payment.

In regards to your statement about the case when somebody sells their business the key is on the actual ownership of the ShopFactory license.

If the ShopFactory license is owned by a business and this business gets sold than the new business owner is the owner of the ShopFactory license and there is no need to buying a new license . Simple ….

For more information please conmtact the ShopFactory team at sales@shopfactory.com or visit the ShopFactory website for the extensive ecommerce functions and features ShopFactory solution provides on a one off license fee or rented model basis which is called ShopFactory Total Care Package.

Best Regards,

Michael

A very good response Michael, its nice to debate an issue with someone who is obviously professional and passionate about their business.

__________________
Regards,
Dave

Internet Retailer eCommerce shops . Geran SEO search engine optimisation

I have found this software very easy indeed to use to build my shops with, I have V 7 Pro, and I like the way it is so easy to type details into my products, photos are easy to place in to anywhere you like to place them.
You can within seconds change your shop to make it look better just with a click of your mouse.
Yes it is too costly for most E Commerce owners to use, they would I know get 100% more people buying it if it was a proper price, but the company has never been for a mass market anyway, just a very small handful of users run this software compared to other shops out on the net.
I give it 100% on easy to use.
100% on how your shop will look if built with this software.
80% on back-up service.
Sadly only 3% on cost of using it, and that is it's major failing area, and with the money situation in the world as it is the cost is the only thing killing it's market that if they wanted they would get it easy, but as I said they would rather it not be for the masses, so it is kept high in price to deter buying.
David

__________________
www.healthyshop.org.uk

www.Alternative4u.co.uk

ShopFactory has never been the cheapest ecommerce solution on the market since it started almost 15 years ago . It always has been offering a professional leading edge solution at a fair and reasonable price. I am sure this is one of the reasons why over 200,000 online shops have been created with ShopFactory to date. When I look at the various ecommerce solutions on the market ShopFactory’s pricing is in the mid range … not the cheapest and certainly not the most expensive by a long way.

However, the pricing of ShopFactory is now more attractive and more competitive with the recent release of its latest ShopFactory V8. ShopFactory V8 is now also offered on a subscription model basis called ShopFactory Total Care. The pricing for the ShopFactory Total care package starts from as little as £9.95 per month (incl. hosting) . Please visit the ShopFactory website for more information and details or contact them at sales@shopfactory.com.

Regards,

Michael